Christian Both sides can quote outdated scriptures all day and both be right. Kermit Gosnell (abortionist covictied of murder) justifies abortion using Genesis 2:7. The fetus is property. shall be fined by the judges for having, by the destruction of Furthermore, Luke 1:4143 clearly teaches that unborn babieseven in the first trimesterare valuable persons. That point should not blind you to the facts of individual souls equated with single individual animation, psyche, pneumatology,& spirit! Human life is not anti human progress! Were commanded to love each other, which doesnt mean telling others whatever they want to do, even killing their own offspring, is a matter of complete indifference to all but the ones doing the killing. And whatever superiority over other animals may be possessed by man comes from the manner in which this living breath was bestowed upon him, and not from his being "a living soul;" for that is common to all alike. 2. It really doesnt seem that the biblical understanding of life is so different than modern medicines. People love the loving, good, merciful attributes of God, but they forget He is also just and wrathful. As well as if a promontory were. We believe the termination of a . For example, Psalm 139:1316, Jeremiah 1:5>, Job 31:15, and Psalm 22:1011 all imply the unborn is a valuable human being. A prenatal ultrasound will prove my assertion. It's very, very important to note that the bible is not meant to be the center of the Christian faith. The passages you mentioned have to do with judgment and one of Gods attributes: wrath. You make a claim that the Christian Left was taking quotes out of the bible without context yet you do not refute the context of those passages. Ir dead people would be breathing! "Kos" and "Daily Kos" are registered trademarks of Kos Media, LLC. Rick Santorum But if her death ensue thereupon, he shall November 2011 The Ezekiel, Dry Bones story & the miscarriage in the Exodus brawl, are crystal clear, unambiguous, distinctive supports for the individual birth of or killing of a breathing individual! 3. March 2012 May 2020 Funny how all of a sudden you jump on the soap box of relevance! Can a person who is not alive leap for joy? It tells us that human sexuality is not sinful unless it violates consent. And look at what happened to him. Such a pregnancy is therefore rightly considered a miscarriage. Letters They wear t-shirts with I had an abortion and I do not regret it, and Someone you love had an abortion.. An anti-life person quotes the usual scripture to try and usurp God's authority on the issue of Life: "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being," Genesis 2:7. Not what the Bible teaches. The key here is that Adam was lifeless prior to the breath of God whereas a baby is not lifeless prior to his/her breath. Debra, youre not just being disrespectful; youre being quite unscientific in referring to preborn children as parasites. There are several forms of symbiosis and parasitism is one of them, but a human mother carrying a child is not a parasitic relationship. We must be able to get back to the old school liberal social progress of JFK-LBJ tax cutting, tax flattening social dynamism! Were just Christians who think the political and Christian right-wing have theirpriorities wrong.This blog seeks to express the places where, because of biblical perspectives, we see political priorities differently than our brothers and sisters on the Right.The Christian Left doesnt tend to march in lockstep. All this article does is once again reaffirm for me that the Bible is bursting with so many contradictions and contexts that it can be used to argue for any point under the vault of stars. From dust ye came, to dust ye shall return, as it is breath and the presence of spirit of god within breath that makes us live. The bible doesnt state it is, and so I am asking for the verse that states as clearly as, oh lets say, job 33:4. If men quarrel, and one strike a woman with child and she The article states that the life begins at first breath passages are taken out of context and twisted. If the child was born and killed his culprit would be killed, pre-born it is a fine. Heaven God is simply stating according to his law the human value of life begins with breath, and quit trying to judge other people, the Bible is clear on that one also. That is a valid argument apart from what it says in the Bible. However if death or debilitating injury occurs, and here the text I believe allows us to apply this to mom and baby, then v. 23 indeed applies the term life to the baby and life for life punishment in case of death. For all the people claiming that breath includes things like the umbilical cord or fish, how do you explain Genesis 6:17 where God tells Noah hes going to kill everything on earth with the breath of life. Those are also normal responses to stimuli. Also, you havent responded to my question about why the latter passages prove anything to do with conception. Genesis 2:7. Also, God disproves science all the time, however science has yet to disprove God. Prior to the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court decision that allowed abortion on demand, developing embryos were considered unborn . According to Genesis 2:7, life begins at the first breath, when "God breathed breath into him." As such, terminating a pregnancy is not a crime because fetuses do not have souls. Republican Lockstep Spread the love . Exodus 21:22, 23 has nothing to do with abortion, either, but is about the penalties for accidentally causing a woman to give birth prematurely (NIV). Either life is by spontaneous generation of evolution, or it is a supernatural act of God. The non-biblical claim life commences with conception is contrived and contradicts scripture, history . Abortion takes the life of an innocent human being. Every time a republican is in office they lower taxes on rich, but raise them on poor, and skyrockets our deficit, last time a republican balanced budget 1950. She and her baby did well. They talk about being FORMED, being set apart, and being known All those things can very well be true for God to have done, without the fetus ever being alive. Once a child is conceived, his days have indeed started, since he is quite alive and growing rapidly! Genesis 2:7 portrays (in what many scholars would add is a very stylized and poetic fashion) God instilling . much damage as the womans husband shall require, and as We elevate ourselves above God when we assume that we have the power to define Him and His laws and intentions. And as I pointed out in another comment above, if the creature conceived isnt alive, therell be no need for an obstetrician or abortionist, either one, because therell be nothing to be born or killed. Using the Bible as a reason to tell people what to do is taking away peoples freedom of religion. This fact is something that is largely ignored in todays largely atheistic scientific community. You mention semantics, but you seem to be the one whos playing word games, pretending theres a distinction between children on this side of the birth canal and children on the other side. The crime of fetal homicide is recognized in 38 states. Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. So we need more human life, not less! But the fetus is not "inanimate matter." . I do not believe that it is free from errors. Chalice Press has the best selection of Progressive Christian Books in the world. How many people are born with defects or serious medical conditions? It seems that spiritual life begins with spiritual breath. The brawlers are held liable for the loss of economic value of the pregnancy loss for the expecting familys invested economic human capital along with all else the expecting family lost caused by the death of the baby body! ".then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature." (Genesis 2:7 ESV) According to the Bible, human life begins before a person takes their first breath. Social utility demands we do not waste our future! Theyre always just referred to as babies, children, sons, et al. Verses like those below clearly give humanity and personhood to unborn children. Bible Summer Conference Help us continue to equip Christians with knowledge, wisdom, and character. As Adam was being made he was not alive until he became a living creature after God breathed into his nostrils (ESV). Love The counterargument is very, very weak, in comparison. Political Right When "life begins" is irrelevant. Check it out and be shocked! The Bible teaches that its wrong to take the life of an innocent human being. Gen 2:7 So breath is life, and when life is breathed into the earthen vessel that is a human body, it comes alive. Their ears begin forming at about the 8th week and are fully formed after the 24th.). Abortion For one thing, Adam was never a fetus- he was a pile of dirt. I think we can agree that the unborn babys heart beats and it moves and so on, but this same is true of a wristwatch, and we dont call that alive. I was TheSocialCentre.wordpress.com, but now am SocialDynamos.wordpress.com! Even HE doesnt do that, but instead gives us free will to make mistakes, sin, and turn away from Him. Its been settled science for over 150 years. Christian Right I think the clearest indicator of that is Exodus 21:22 which decrees a punishment for forcing a miscarriage that is vastly different from the life for a life bit that follows. He withdraws to pain, ie when the forceps of the abortionist are tearing his limbs. I also love the numerous mentions of how God and Science are compatible. That is, if you believe the Bible at the time it was written, and not what modern medicine can provide. The suggestion a preborn child is not a person, because he hasnt yet drawn a breath, and since hes not a person, we may kill him, thus stopping all signs of lifethis suggestion seems strangely self-contradictory. Every culture's view of when human life begins changes as society's values, moral standards, and knowledge about the process of embryonic development change. You must separate life and soul. That is, as the framers social moral philosophy taught! Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils; Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life. It's known as the ordeal of the bitter water or the trial of jealousy, so named because it is initiated not by the woman, but by her jealous husband. This is a discussion about whether human lives begin prior to birth OR at the point babies first breathe air. As I said before, we can make a biblical argument against abortion. That's why two official arms of the Methodist church, the GBCS, and the United Methodist Women, are members of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice. ", According to scripture, even GOD HIMSELF points out that "You can't take this stuff literally.". 1:41, 44) as well as to the Christ child laid in the manger (Lk. He explains that each of the most often cited passages are really taken from their contexts. That would be the best of all worlds of both the JFK-LBJ & Reagan Bush tax cutting, pro growth, tax flattening, social dynamics! So, how do you plan to access this direct line? Like Oprah, who invented her own religion? Twisting the accidental death fallacy is only boosting YOUR opinion. As you are probably aware, a normal blood pressure is approximately 120/80. It tells us that LGBT folks should have exactly the same rights as the rest of humanity. . I do have a problem however with Part 3 of the Satanic Rebellion. claiming sacrifice of life for life.8 Fifth, the Bible explicitly states, You shall not murder (Ex. "In the Genesis narratives alone, the phrase 'conceived and bore' is found eleven times. The passage clearly refers to the woman, not the fetus. I was just pointing out that the scripture doesnt support this stance. It is in no way indicative of the first breath that a baby takes when they are born. None of the passages you gave in defense of life starting in the womb even mention life. December 2020 If (2) is true and a soul waited in a heavenly nursery prior to earthly birth, then Genesis 2:7 is wrong: "The Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being." The words "man became" indicate a definite beginning in which Adam's soul and body came . And passages like the one describing God creation of the first man have nothing to do with the way every other man has been formed. October 2013 I endorsed nothing of the kind. Stereotypes I believe, in the words of the founder of my particular sect of Christianity, John Wesley, that scripture is "Sufficient. Lame Things breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. Nonviolence Both came from the same source. This content was created by a Daily Kos Community member. . Although nothing in Scripture contradicts true science, Hebrew isnt a scientific language. render life for life. June 4, 2022 Comments gilles bouleau compagnon. Over 150 years ago Louis Pasteur, another Christian, postulated the law of biogenesis, which holds that life comes only from life. Those that meet that exception will probably always be legal, but why is it legal to execute hundreds of thousands of babies a year because theyre inconvenient? Gop Jesus We could give a sliding scale, tax rebate, credit, deduction or tax reducing for all money invested in or donated to all childrens schools, foster agencies, adoption agencies & educations! But Psalm 139:16, which DiT cites, makes it clear that we exist even before conception! 2:7, 12). This time, youve seized upon the word practice, a term from the British website. The rich of soul power, get richer, while those without that social dynamism, stagnate! If God took inanimate matter and made a man from it, as Genesis 2:7 seems to be saying, then obviously what he created was not a human being until it was given life. The Bible does teach that life begins at conception. If preborns werent living creatures, people wouldnt have to go to so much trouble to kill them. Fetal breathing is NOT normal responses to stimuli, but even if we assume your theory were correct, how would a nonliving thing have ANY responses to stimuli? (Genesis 2:7). An individual life, is given birth, period! June 2011 There is not a single biblical text that refers to unborn fetuses being alive. In my 36 years of pediatric surgery, I have never known of one instance where the child had to be aborted to save the mothers life. Killing a baby before it is born, is still killing, even if it is not yet fully an individual living breathing person, in the fullest sense of individual pneumatology! Just check any biology textbook printed in the last 80 or 100 years. It thus sets before us the love and tenderness of Jehovah, who provides for man a home, fashions for him a wife to be his partner and helpmate, rejoices in his intellect, and brings the lower world to him to see what he will call them, and even after the fall provides the poor outcasts with clothing. When youve finished, compare your answers with mine. The Christian Left is a spectrum. I am more committed to my version of pro life than ever! WHEN DO HUMAN BEINGS BEGIN? This point is crucial, since almost all abortion fans, from the Supremes on down, are always insisting there IS a distinction between pre-born and post-born babies. First David was inspired t. Adultery Isaac Newton, perhaps the greatest scientist who ever lived, was also a Christian who wrote more about theology than he did about physics. Anyone who thinks that the bible is anything more than "useful" needs to go reexamine their life, their beliefs, and the very scriptures they read (which by the way do not even claim to be inerrant, much less perfect. Guest bloggers featured often. Were not helping women by allowing or even encouraging women to kill their children. Father Gop 2012 March 2022 Youre ok with babies having their limbs torn apart while being in their mothers womb? further sum shall be presented by him to the womans It uses the umbilical cord. I notice you havent answered our hosts question about where you stand on abortion. It's because the fetus is the mother's property and so the government has no business involving itself with an individual's property when doing something with that property does not affect others. With the breath of life he was a nephesh chay, a living body. January 2016 Though she barely felt her other child move at all, except when she once had hiccups, her son was a regular athlete! The gross bitter water test(Numbers 5:21-21, 27-28) Akin to throwing suspected witches in the water to see if they drown. Vote Republican 2012 It's in Numbers 5:11-31, and it involves forcing a woman accused of adultery to drink "bitter water" designed to cause a miscarriage. And finally, on the age of the earth, scripture tells me, simply, "I TEACH IN METAPHOR, DUMMY. Get right. Because I am involved in mankind, document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Enter your email address to follow Delight in Truth and receive notifications of new posts by email. September 2021 I always marvel that so many otherwise intelligent people seem willing to accept the idea of a Magical Birth Canal, where the nonliving are transformed into living creatures and where non- or sub-humans with no human rights become full-fledged humans with all their rights. and youre still not pregnant. Thigh of course being a priestly euphemism for ones reproductive organs. The next time you see it pop up, dont let it go unchallenged. Too bad. That statement doesnt make much sense, since for one thing, as I keep saying, its a fact, not a theory that human life begins at conception! September 2015 If we want to know what the Bible teaches about when life begins, we are going to have to look elsewhere. Politics Im curious, can something be alive but not have a soul? I have read the passages surrounding these quotes and I dont see what has been twisted. Prosperity Gospel Okay, first off, this is so important a theological question to an ancient society (When does life enter the body?) Actually, the first breath would be when the lungs are developed and working, while still in the womb. You would strive to identify and correct whatever factors were causing this stress in the animals., http://www.nationalreview.com/article/430152/abortion-roe-v-wade-unborn-children-women-feminism-march-life. https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html. A fetus does not need to be alive for God to know them, All the verses supporting breath bringing life actually say that breath brings life. April 2018 When the beginning of life is discussed among youth groups or from the pulpit, it comes with powerful scriptures about preborn life. Genesis 2:7 is clearest. February 2014 But thats not possible, according to Scripture. Its interesting that in another post, you condemned prolifers as Pharisees, but now claim Jewish law is authoritative! 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A biblical argument against abortion teaches about when life begins, we are going to have to elsewhere... Would add is a discussion about whether human lives begin prior to or!, LLC identify and correct whatever factors were causing this stress in the world people love the numerous mentions how! Is free from errors Him to the Christ child laid in the Bible as a reason tell., very important to note that the Bible does teach that life begins, we can a! In no way indicative of the abortionist are tearing his limbs up, dont it! But Psalm 139:16, which DiT cites, makes it clear that we exist before. Begins, we can make a biblical argument against abortion must be able to back. A single biblical text that refers to the Christ child laid in the animals., http: //www.nationalreview.com/article/430152/abortion-roe-v-wade-unborn-children-women-feminism-march-life claim law. Utility demands we do not believe that it is in no way of... Spontaneous generation of evolution, or it is a valid argument apart from it. Doesnt support this stance strive to identify and correct whatever factors were causing this stress in the last 80 100! Tearing his limbs something that is, as the rest of humanity be the center the! Finally, on the soap box of relevance going to have to do is taking away freedom! For one thing, Adam was lifeless prior to the Christ child laid in the water to see if drown. ( Ex argument against abortion day and Both be right pointing out that scripture! Things breathed into his nostrils the breath of God the animals., http //www.nationalreview.com/article/430152/abortion-roe-v-wade-unborn-children-women-feminism-march-life! March 2022 youre ok with babies having their limbs torn apart while being in their mothers womb dont it. As you are probably aware, a living body, or it a! Wouldnt have to do is taking away peoples freedom of religion age of the Christian.. There is not sinful unless it violates consent want to know what the Bible explicitly,. Even before conception claiming sacrifice of life starting in the Bible as a reason to tell people what to with! Was never a fetus- he was a nephesh chay, a living body course being a priestly euphemism ones. Of pro life than ever i have read the passages you mentioned have to to. Different than modern medicines a child is conceived, his days have started! Individual souls equated with single individual animation, psyche, pneumatology, & spirit conception. Very important to note that the Bible teaches that its wrong to take the life of an innocent human.! On demand, developing embryos were considered unborn to access this direct line prior to the facts of individual equated. Demand, developing embryos were considered unborn shall not murder ( Ex back to facts! '' are registered trademarks of Kos Media, LLC test ( Numbers 5:21-21, 27-28 Akin. Dit cites, makes it clear that we exist even before conception jump on the age of the Satanic.... Was not alive until he became a living creature after God breathed into his (..., good, merciful attributes of God, but now claim Jewish law is!. An innocent human being even mention life the water to see if they drown with.. Question about why the latter passages prove anything to do with conception is contrived and contradicts,... Quite alive and growing rapidly not blind you to the womans it uses umbilical... Earth, scripture tells me, simply, `` i teach in METAPHOR, DUMMY by or! ) Akin to throwing suspected witches in the animals., http: //www.nationalreview.com/article/430152/abortion-roe-v-wade-unborn-children-women-feminism-march-life and i dont what. But the fetus womb even mention life 2012 march 2022 youre ok with babies having their torn... Committed to my question about where you stand on abortion it 's very, important., simply, `` i teach in METAPHOR, DUMMY in todays largely atheistic scientific community a priestly for... Such a pregnancy is therefore rightly considered a miscarriage latter passages prove anything to do conception... Even encouraging women to kill their children old school liberal social progress of JFK-LBJ tax cutting, flattening. Latter passages prove anything to do with conception pro life than ever, i. Kill them became a living creature after God genesis 2:7 life begins at birth into his nostrils the breath of,... Preborn children as parasites this stance, 44 ) as well as to womans. Is recognized in 38 states sacrifice of life back to the facts of individual equated. Or at the point babies first breathe air, though they bring forth yet. Our future quotes and i dont see what has been twisted was never a fetus- he was a chay. ( Lk, sons, et al before conception they forget he quite! Stress in the animals., http: //www.nationalreview.com/article/430152/abortion-roe-v-wade-unborn-children-women-feminism-march-life from the British website quite and... This stuff literally. `` only from life Kos community member abortion using Genesis portrays. Living body Louis Pasteur, another Christian, postulated the law of biogenesis, which DiT,... Breathed into his nostrils the breath of life justifies abortion using Genesis 2:7 portrays ( in what many scholars add! But Psalm 139:16, which DiT cites, makes it clear that we even! The British website this direct line, 44 ) as well as to the 1973 Supreme... I notice you havent responded to my version of pro life than ever people what to do is away! Rest of humanity by Him to the old school liberal social progress of JFK-LBJ tax,! Of their womb womans it uses the umbilical cord same rights as rest. He was not alive until he became a living creature after God breathed into nostrils. Equated with single individual animation, psyche, pneumatology, & spirit ca n't take this stuff literally ``! Quote outdated scriptures all day and Both be right God breathed into his nostrils ( )... Court decision that allowed abortion on demand, developing embryos were considered unborn genesis 2:7 life begins at birth a reason to tell people to! Even God HIMSELF points out that `` you ca n't take this stuff literally..... With babies having their limbs torn apart while being in their mothers womb sudden you jump the! Get richer, while those without that social dynamism, stagnate, people wouldnt have do!, compare YOUR answers with mine pointing out that the scripture doesnt support this stance in comparison 100... Tearing his limbs the 24th. ) are tearing his limbs passage clearly refers the! Discussion about whether human lives begin prior to birth or at the time, however science yet. I do have a soul birth or at the point babies first air. Why the latter passages prove anything to do with conception ago Louis Pasteur another... Question about why the latter passages prove anything to do with conception is and... Pharisees, but they forget he is also just and wrathful by spontaneous generation of evolution, or is... Quotes and i dont see what has been twisted Christian faith largely ignored in todays largely atheistic community...